JINBEI – HD 610 – TTL & HSS Cordless Strobe Coming

JINBEI HD 610

 

Details are emerging of the long awaited TTL enabled follow up to the popular Jinbei HD 600 / RoveLight series of cordless strobes. With the HD 610 expected to be available around September 2016.

The original HD 600 are known for being one of the most powerful battery powered strobes in the 600Ws class, as well as for their unique Long Duration Sync mode allowing high camera shutter speeds.

And the HD 610 appear to be raising the bar further with substantial upgrades including –

 

  • TTL Modes for Canon and Nikon DSLR’s (Initially)
  • Pulsing HSS Mode allowing shutter speeds to 1/8000
  • Short Flash Duration (Freeze Mode) down to 1/19000s
  • Full power recycle time of just 2.5 seconds (down from 3.5 seconds)
  • Manual power levels down to 1/256th, with fine 0.1 stop graduations
  • Powerful 20 watt 3200K LED modeling lamp (equivalent to 100 watt tungsten)
  • Large full color LED display and simple user interface

 

 

JINBEI HD 610

 

Along with numerous other aspects reminiscent of the Profoto B1, the HD 610 have now adopted a top mounted battery, which frees up the strobes rear panel allowing for the larger interface and LCD display.

The 14.8V 6000mAh Lithium-ion battery providing over 450 full power flashes, and now featuring a built in power level display.

 

JINBEI HD 610

 

The HD 610’s new user interface design features a large clear full color LCD display, simple menu system, and large power and function control dial.

 

JINBEI HD 610

 

 

JINBEI HD 610 FEATURES

 

  • Powerful 600Ws (Guide N0. 80M – ISO 100, Standard Reflector)
  • Fan Cooled (Auto)
  • 20W LED Modelling Light (100W Tungsten Equivalent, 3200K)
  • Bowens S-type Accessory Mount
  • Built in (removable) 14.8V / 6000mAh Lithium-ion Battery
  • Over 450 Full Power Pops Per Battery Charge
  • 0.01 – 2.5 Seconds Recycle Time
  • Flash Modes – TTL / M
  • HSS to 1/8000th
  • Second Curtain Sync
  • Manual Flash – 1/256 – 1/1 Output (1/10th Increments, 9 Stop Range)
  • Long Flash Duration Mode – Down to 1/32 Power
  • Short Flash Duration (Freeze Mode) – 1/800s – 1/19000s
  • Jinbei 2.4GHz Radio Receiver Built-in
  • ETTL & ITTL Radio Slave Modes
  • Range – 300m + with TR-611 / TR-612 as Transmitter
  • Groups – A / B / C / D / E / F
  • 16 Channels
  • Supports Legacy TRS-V / TR-A6 Trigger System (may be limited function)
  • Supports Legacy TRS Trigger System (may be limited function)
  • Large Color Dot Matrix LCD Display
  • Custom Functions
  • Auto Memory Function
  • Sound Prompt
  • Mini USB Port for Firmware Upgrades
  • 3.5mm Sync Port

 

The HD 610 provide a 20 watt LED modeling lamp (equivalent to 100 watt tungsten), with warm 3200K color temperature to help match with AC studio strobes.

 

JINBEI HD 610

 

The HD 610’s Lithium-ion Polymer battery now provides its own built -in battery level indicator.

JINBEI HD 610

 

And inside the battery compartment is located a min USB port for user firmware updates.

 

JINBEI HD 610

 

 

The initial TTL and HSS enabled transmitter units compatible with the HD 610 will be the Jinbei TR-611 for Canon, and TR-612 for Nikon.

These provide 3 individual Groups A / B / C, as well as a TTL pass through hotshoe on top.

Radio range is specified as up to an impressive 300 meters.

 

JINBEI HD 610

 

For current owners of the popular HD 600 / FlashPoint Rovelight, and HD 600V, the HD 610 do actually provide legacy radio transmission modes.

Though it appears these modes need to be selected separately from the Canon or Nikon TTL modes, so remote functionality with the HD 610 may still be quite limited when combining with legacy strobes and transmitter units.

The radio modes available are –

  • C – Canon TTL
  • N – Nikon TTL
  • A6 – TR-A6 and TRS-V Transmitter Units
  • TRS – TRS Transmitter Unit

JINBEI HD 610

TR-611 / TR-612 – transmitters will provide full TTL / Remote Manual / HSS, in 3 individual groups with the HD 610.

TRS-V and TR-A6 – are compatible with the HD 600V. The TRS-V providing remote manual power control for one flash group only. And the TR-A6 adds HSS function for Canon or Nikon (and an LCD screen).

TRS – original transmitters are compatible with the original HD 600 and RoveLight, and also provide remote manual power control for one flash group only.

 

JINBEI HD 610

 

Its not completely clear yet which remote functions the TR-A6 / TRS-V, or TRS transmission modes will provide with the HD 610 strobes though.

UPDATE – We now know –

  • The TRS transmitter can adjust power, and enable the HD 610 modelling light with the head in TRS mode.
  • The TRS-V and the TR-A6 can adjust power, and enable the HD610 modelling lamp with the head in A6 mode. The TRA6 can also trigger the HD 610 in HSS mode.

Of course this is only of concern to current Jinbei / RoveLight strobe owners. New Jinbei HD 610 owners would have full functionality with the new TR-611 or TR-612 transmitters.

 

JINBEI HD 610

 

PRICE AND AVAILABILITY

 

The Jinbei HD 610 TTL and HSS enabled strobes are available now from around $699 –

 

Jinbei HD 610 – Ebay, Amazon, UK

Orlit RT 610 – Adorama, Amazon, Ebay

 

Jinbei – Website

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91 Comments
  1. Darryl 1 year ago

    Digging the better 20w modeling lamp.

    • Author
      Flash Havoc 1 year ago

      Hi Daryl,

      Yes once again this is matching the Profoto B1 specs.

      Nevertheless its a great step forward compared to most current cordless strobes.

      I sound like a broken record, but modelling lights are the main thing still holding cordless strobes back from taking over more from AC / studio strobes.

  2. Ken tam 1 year ago

    Good move, but still not support pentax, sony, fuji.

    • Author
      Flash Havoc 1 year ago

      Hi Ken,

      Up until now Jinbei have been a long way behind when it comes to the radio trigger side of things, let alone TTL. So its yet to be seen how well resolved the Canon and Nikon systems are to start with.

      Having said that, I don’t know this for sure, though there are a number of indications the radio triggers are likely made by Pixel HK. You may notice the similarity with the Pixel King Pro, including the 300 meter range.

      And if that is the case, Pixel have previously produced Sony TTL triggers already. And I’ve seen some mention of Sony compatibility possibly coming later for the HD 610. So considering the previous comments that sounds quite plausible.

      Regarding Pentax and Fuji etc, I really don’t know about that.

  3. jos 1 year ago

    Short Flash Duration (Freeze Mode) – 1/800s – 1/19000s

    1/19000 t1. ??

    • Author
      Flash Havoc 1 year ago

      Hi Jos,

      As far as I understand with IGBT strobes the t.1 times are much the same as the t.5 times once you go below full power, because the flash tail is sharply cut off at anything below full power.

      There is a nice explanation of flash durations on the PCB website here.

      The 1/19000s spec and Freeze Mode are matching the Profoto B1 specs by the way. That’s obviously no coincidence.

  4. Dennis 1 year ago

    So are you saying the new TR-A6 tigger might work with the older rovelights replacing the frustrating TRS trigger?

    • Author
      Flash Havoc 1 year ago

      Hi Dennis,

      I totally missed the release of the TR-A6 transmitter, so I’m not 100% sure myself. I’ll order one and see what happens.

      As far as I understand though, the TR-A6 are designed for the HD 600V, which have a different radio module to the original HD 600 / RoveLights. So the TR-A6 and TRS-V are running on the same system, compatible with the HD 600V.

      Though the TR-A6 do also have a mode compatible with the legacy HD 600 / RoveLight. I’m not sure what that can do though other than firing the flash and providing the HSS pre-sync signal. I’m not sure if it can provide remote manual power control, and its almost certain there is no group control with the HD 600 / RoveLights.

      And I’m really not even sure if the HD 600V have any group control possible with their radio module either.

      Regarding the RoveLight I think its really going to be up to Adorama again to work out what is going to be the best way forward with RoveLights and transmitter.

      The HD 610 are basically a completely different flash now, and the only way they are ever going to integrate properly with the current RoveLights is if Jinbei and Adorama put together a transmitter which is going to transmit on dual frequencies, and use the channels on the RoveLight to provide some group control.

      That could be messy though. And the RoveLights don’t really have any direct power control to correspond with an LCD transmitter display either. They just bump power levels up and down.

      So I really don’t know at this point. I think the first step is Adorama need to access a HD 610 and TR-611 / 12 sample to see where that’s really up to.

      I think Jinbei have indicated previously they are willing to work with Adorama to provide a transmitter to help bridge the gap to some degree. Though at the end of the day it may be better to have 2 separate systems than compromise a new system with the restrictions of legacy gear.

      There a lot of RoveLights out there already, so I hope something can be done for their transmitter. Though after that it may be kinder to say that’s as far as they will progress. If you want more features then its time to move to new system (HD 610 etc).

    • Jeff Servaas 1 year ago

      100% yes.

  5. Will 1 year ago

    They lost me as a customer with the peice of crap remote on the first one. Would have been an easy upgrade for them but now most people have moved on the a different system. I have since invested in the Godox system and could not be happier. My rovelights collect dust waiting to be sold on Craigslist.

  6. Jeff Servaas 1 year ago

    We have two of the HD610’s (pre-production, hand built) and have tested backward compatibility with the previous remotes:
    The TRS can adjust power, and enable the HD610 modelling light with the head in TRS mode.
    The TRS-V and the TRA6 can adjust power, and enable the HD610 modelling lamp with the head in A6 mode. The TRA6 can also trigger the HD610 in HSS mode.

    Effectively, Jinbei have made the HD610 backward compatible with all three generations of HD600 triggers.

    We did a quick 1 hour location shoot last week, it is now live on Youtube. https://youtu.be/wVbJl7XEOXM

    As far as the TR-A6 working with older HD600’s, yes it is compatible. It has a mode to work with the HD600V and a mode to work with receiver in the older HD600’s. SO both can now do HSS. The TRA6 trigger will also enable HSS on all current Jinbei flash heads. So far we have tested the Discovery 600, Discovery 1200, MSN600, and DM3400.

    • Author
      Flash Havoc 1 year ago

      Hi Jeff,

      Thanks for the details there!

      Do you know if the TR-A6 will adjust the remote manual power levels of the original HD 600?

      I would assume the TR-A6 are sending actual power levels to the HD 600V?, (so the transmitter and flash display the same setting) not just bumping power levels up and down as the HD 600 and TRS do.

      Also Am I right to assume the TR-A6 has no group functions?

      Its great that the HD 610 provide backward compatible receiver modes, and i’m not trying to criticise them, though I think its really the transmitter end that’s going to be the main concern as far as current owners trying to figure out the practical realities of combining legacy strobes.

      Because you don’t really want to be using the old transmitters with no group control (and definitely no TTL function) with the new lights. You want to be able to use the new transmitter with the new lights, and the old lights together.

      That’s where things get tricky. And don’t know if some form of dual frequency transmitter may even be possible or practical. Particularly with the restriction built into the original HD 600 / RoveLight.

      If you only have one previous light though, stacking an older transmitter on top of the TR-611 / 612 could be an option.

  7. Jeff Servaas 1 year ago

    Yes, the TR-A6 can adjust the power levels of the original HD600, or the HD600V. It has both radios built in, you have to choose which radio you use, so you cannot trigger an original HD600 and a HD600V at the same time. Well, you could with Optical slave mode, but not with the TR-A6.

    Correct, whatever power you set on the TR-A6 is transferred to the head, and the power level is displayed on the LCD screen.

    The TR-A6 has no group functions, or, more correctly, the HD600 has no group function. That’s part of what has been built into the HD610, and the corresponding TR611C and TR612N triggers.

    Jinbei have thoroughly thought through how to support owners of the HD600 and HD600V in their HD610 head deign by including three radios in the new head. It has three radio modes:
    TTL for use with the TR611C/TR612N
    HSS for use with the TRA6
    TRS for use with the original TRS trigger

    When using HD610 in TTL mode, you can only trigger the head with the TR611/612 trigger, and only control HD610 head/s, in up to three groups.
    When using HSS mode on the HD610, you can use the TRA6, or TR611/612 to trigger both HD600V and HD610 heads in HSS mode, but only in one group.
    When using the TRS mode, you can use the you can use the TRS, or the TRA6, or TR611/612 to trigger both HD600 and HD610 heads, but not in HSS mode, and only in one group.

    Including the previous two generations of trigger in the new HD610 head gives all existing Jinbei owners a way to use all their lights together, and an upgrade path without having to start again.

    • Author
      Flash Havoc 1 year ago

      Thanks Jeff.

      So just to clarify with the TR-A6 and original HD 600. Does the transmitter display a power level corresponding to the transmitter? (like you just described when using the HD600V).

  8. Author
    Flash Havoc 1 year ago

    Also I don’t really want to get into an argument. Though I can assure you the upgrade path you described is not what current owners are after.

    Because the lack of group control with any of the previous transmitter units is a deal breaker to start with.

    Thats not a reasonable upgrade path if you can’t even control a number of lights together via the one transmitter. There are hundreds of RoveLight owners complaining about that issue using the HD 600 alone.

    If the TR-611 and TR-612 could at least fire and remote control the HD600V, at the same time as the HD 610, then that would at least be something (still no help to HD 600 owners).

    Jinbei changed the radio receiver module from the HD 600 to the HD 600V, which caused a lot of problems. But now it appears they have moved to a third separate system again with the HD 610.

  9. Jeff Servaas 1 year ago

    To clarify, yes, with the TR-A6 and HD600, the trigger will display the power level of the head on the TR-A6 LCD screen.

    I understand HD600 owners would love group control, but it is not a function that the HD600 is capable of. We’ve been working with Jinbei for 3 years, feeding back to them the feature set we wanted in the ultimate head, and they’ve built it. They can’t add groups to the HD600.

    The TR611/612 DOES fire and remote control the HD600 and HD610 at the same time. Thets TRS mode. It can also fire and remotely control a HD600V and a HD610 at the same time, that’s the A6 mode.

    The move from the HD600 to the HD600V was about improving the signal strength and reliability of the transmitter. It was a short term fix until they could build a trigger to do HSS and a new head capable of grouping. It’s a huge amount of work to reverse engineer the Canon and Nikon protocols to make this stuff work. They have hired a number of engineers with experience with Canon and Nikon TTL to get it working. We saw the first 3D printed prototype in Julty 2014. It’s not just a rebranded Pixel King, they’ve done it all in house and you’ll see that technology being applied into other studio heads and their speedlight range.

    • Author
      Flash Havoc 1 year ago

      Ok thanks, so I think you’re saying the TR-611 / 612 have the same radio mode options as the HD 610 –

      TTL – for use with the HD 610
      A6 – (TR-A6 / TRS-V) – with the HD 610 and HD 600V
      TRS – for use with the HD 610 and HD 600

      Thats making sense then. Though unfortunately that would mean there is still no group control if using the HD 610 and HD 600V together?

      .

      Yes I realise the HD 600 do not have any group function. But even Jinbei themselves where originally suggesting using the channels as a workaround to that.

      Maybe this is not as much or a concern for you, though Adorama likely have thousands of RoveLights / HD 600 out there already, and are currently still running with that original system today. So they will need to work out a better way forward with bridging the gap, or just move on.

      And if the TR-A6 is sending the actual power levels to the HD 600, that is excellent, because it means a multi group transmitter, using the channels instead of groups would be possible.

      Unfortunately it would still be very messy trying to incorporate that into the HD 610’s TRS mode.

      It sounds like at best they could likely fudge together a multi group transmitter for remote manual use with the HD 600, and HD 610. Though the question is whether that would even be worthwhile, when the TTL side is still completely separate.

      • Author
        Flash Havoc 1 year ago

        Actually I think I may have a very reasonable solution.

        If Adorama / Jinbei were to make a multi group transmitter for the HD 600 (using channels to differentiate the groups).

        Then you could simply mount that on top of the TR-611 / TR-612 transmitter.

        So the TR-611 / 612 have full control of multiple HD 610 in TTL or Remote Manual. And the new transmitter mounted on top have full control of multiple HD 600 / RoveLights in Remote manual.

        The HSS pre-sync signal will pass through the TR-611 / 612 transmitter hotshoe, so the HD 600 / RoveLights will provide HSS (Long Duration Sync) as well.

        Now that would be practical control of both lights, all with multiple groups, without losing any functionality with the HD 610.

        And a practical upgrade path. 🙂

  10. Alex 1 year ago

    Hi Jeff, I’ve watched you video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVbJl7XEOXM
    It’s awesome! I’m interested in buying one. Keep update for new products & models..

    Cheers,
    Alex

  11. Dan 1 year ago

    The battery looks exactly like the Profoto battery. Do you know if it interchanges? I am interested in this to backup the Profoto.

    • Jeff Servaas 1 year ago

      Dan, the Profoto B1 battery is a 3000mAh Lithium Ion whereas the Jinbei is the newer generation Lithium Polymer, so the capacity is doubled at 6000mAh. If it did fit, it would be a worthy upgrade for a B1, and a huge cost saving. However, the battery contacts are completely different, so I don’t expect it will fit.

      • Dan 1 year ago

        Thanks, I’m still interested because this looks basically like a B1 with a few upgrades for much cheaper.

  12. Donald Carrie 1 year ago

    Hi, Looks very interesting, though I’m still very happy with my 600V & Odins so far.
    On the HD 610 they are using the same ‘H/flash’ icon that they used on the 600 versions, where it meant long duration but fading through the curtain movements. So is the 610 Pulsing (sustained output) or Long duration but fading, like the 600. I am finding the long duration option to be perfectly useable but there is a modest gradient (darker at the top in landscape). So which is it please?

    • BMac 1 year ago

      Donald, the 610 uses the long flash duration option. The advantage of this option is that it tends to be more powerful than the pulsing flash option. Further testing will see if Jinbei have improved the flash smarts to lessen any change in exposure across the frame.

      • Author
        Flash Havoc 1 year ago

        From what I understand it does both.

        If you’re using TTL, or remote manual outside the Long Flash Duration Mode, then it pulses the flash if using higher shutter speeds.

        I don’t think it would be possible to use a voltage controlled, long flash duration method, with TTL.

        • Donald Carrie 1 year ago

          Tx BMac & Elv! I’ve got an Oscilloscope, so if there was an HD610 in England, I’d find out the details for myself. The Jinbei site has always been pretty unhelpful – at least, in English, anyway. Tx for your thoughts.

          Also . . . is the TR-611 Tx upper hot-shoe a proper TTL passthrough? I’d quite like to put an Odin (original) TCU in there for remote M control of hair/accent/edge Speedlites, while the Caller TR-611 / HD610 was TTL Key.

          • Author
            Flash Havoc 1 year ago

            Donald, you could try contacting foto-morgen.de as they are closer by, and they will likely be looking for people to review the strobes once they have some more samples in.

            I don’t know if have looked at the HD 600V on the oscilloscope, though I know other people have, and confirmed they do act as an IGBT strobe, and switch to a voltage controlled method when you switch on the Long Duration ( H ) mode.

            Regarding stacking the Odin, on top of the TR-611 / 612, I don’t like your chances there becasue the Odin like to be on the camera hotshoe, and most TTL pass through hotshoes are not really a direct pass through. And Pixel and Phottix gear generally don’t work well together.

            I’m not sure if the Odin II transmitter may act more like a single firing pin transmitter, in which case you could cover the TTL contacts if needed, to stack them on top of other transmitters.

            In any case we will have to wait for the final TR-611 / 612 to be available to be sure.

            • Donald Carrie 1 year ago

              Tx for that, Elv.

  13. BMac 1 year ago

    Very confident that HSS is long duration, will confirm soon, The TR-611/12 have a slave option that allows the trigger to become a slave for use with speed lights. Again I will confirm what modes this allows (TTL, HSS etc) , will test pass through as well. We have a Pre Release unit, the official release of the product is aprox 8 weeks away so it is best we confirm accurately with Jinbei regarding final specs. Brian (Protog)

    • Author
      Flash Havoc 1 year ago

      Brian, I’m confident the Long Duration mode on the HD 610 are using a similar voltage controlled long flash duration mode as the HD 600 / 600V as well.

      Though if the HD 610 are providing HSS in TTL mode, then I think they have to be pulsing the flash. They couldn’t be using voltage controlled method in TTL mode otherwise there would be auto dumps going off all over the place to start with. And when using IGBT the flash durations are too short at lower power levels, so the strobe needs to use the pulsing method.

      I don’t have the strobe, so I can only go on what others are saying, and that appears to be there is HSS in the TTL mode.

      We have stopped referring to any Long Duration Sync modes as HSS at all, so its clear when the original flash pulsing HSS is being refereed to. And most of the manufacturers so far are onto this as well (otherwise they get people complaining).

  14. Donald Carrie 1 year ago

    Tx BMac! Although the Godox AD600 pulses for HSS, it doesn’t do so uniformly. Real world use/pics, without trying to deny the gradient (Elinchrom, anyone?) is the most persuasive info, IMO. Looking forward to your findings – Tx.

    • Author
      Flash Havoc 1 year ago

      Donald, I haven’t studied the AD600 HSS results in any great detail, though I think its clear the frames have considerably less gradient than the HD 600 in Long Duration mode. (I don’t know if the HD 610 have tried to improve on that).

      The trade off, as Brian mentioned earlier, is that pulsing HSS generally provides less light in the frame than the Long Duration mode.

      Of course with strobes like the AD600 you can always still use the Long Duration method with the strobe set to full power. The Jinbei strobes allow you to use lower power levels in the Long Duration mode as well though. So its pretty cool if the HD 610 do provide both methods.

      • Donald Carrie 1 year ago

        Tx Elv. Yes, both options would be great & I appreciate the total-flash-power-captured-above-Max-sync-speed notion. The Long duration option being available at say 1/4 power etc can help with recycling. I’ll be following as info – including TR-611 Tx ‘pass-through’ etc – filters through. Tx!

        • Author
          Flash Havoc 1 year ago

          Another advantage to the Long Duration method can also recycle speed…

          EDIT – My assumption the HD-600 was likely still faster in H mode than the AD600 in HSS mode was wrong.

          I set them up so they where both producing close to the same light in the frame, and the AD600 recycled twice as fast in HSS mode, as the HD-600 in the voltage controlled H mode.

          • Adri 1 year ago

            You say “Another advantage to the Long Duration method can also recycle speed”

            Is this really the case with those/similar strobes?

            With SPEEDLITES exactly the opposite is the case: In most constellations pulsing HSS mode results in extremely FAST recycling times (especially with short shutter times; tested it e.g. with SB-910, YN-568, Metz AF-58 II etc.).

            (Though it’s a common myth that it’s the other way around, applying the explanation that most of the light is blocked by the shutter blades in HSS mode. But if you think it through, technically it’s more complicated.)

            • Author
              Flash Havoc 1 year ago

              Ok, my assumption regarding the HD-600 still likely being faster in H mode than the AD600 in HSS mode was completely wrong.

              I set them up so they where both producing close to the same light in the frame, and the AD600 recycled twice as fast in HSS mode, as the HD-600 in the voltage controlled H mode.

              So my assumption the voltage controlled mode would still be faster was wrong. The HD-600 is the only strobe I have with a mode like this to compare with though. I think Priolite would be the only other voltage controlled flash specifically designed for this, so I don’t know if they would fare better or not, because the HD-600 recycle fairly slow in general.

              The AD600, AD360II, and even Canon Speedlites, appear to recycle the same at full power whether in or out of HSS mode. So there’s no real difference if using HSS or Long Duration Sync with those, unless you want to factor in you can get more light in part of the frame using the Long Duration method.

              Though also over the last few years the AD360 have been the main larger HSS enabled flash available, and they are limited to 10 shots in HSS mode. So recycle using the Long Duration method is often much faster simply due to the heat protection in HSS mode. Thats not as much of an issue now with the AD360II, though still may be worth considering at times.

              Regarding the Nikon speedlites recycling fast in HSS mode, wow they are fast. Though I think the reason why is, unlike Canon, they don not fill the capacitor completely, or put out as much light in HSS mode. I haven’t tested this, though I always remember Rob Galbraith writing the Nikon speedlites put out less than half the light of Canon in HSS mode. Theres no free lunch so that faster recycle has to be due to a reason.

              So my assumption regarding the HD-600 was wrong, though I really don’t know how that relates to other voltage controlled flashes. As mentioned the Priolite is really the only other purpose built option to possibly compare.

              Also using the HD-600 in IGBT mode at full power, that would be around equal recycle to the AD600 (if they could match the HD-600 power), in or out of HSS mode. So not much difference if using HSS or Long Duration sync at full power with most IGBT strobes. Nikon speedlightes appear to be an exception.

              • Adri 1 year ago

                You wrote: “Regarding the Nikon speedlites recycling fast in HSS mode, wow they are fast. Though I think the reason why is, unlike Canon, they don not fill the capacitor completely, or put out as much light in HSS mode.”

                1.) I don’t get the logic. Because they do not fill the capacitor completely, recycling time is shorter??

                2.) Is it really true Canon speedlites have a longer recyle time compared to Nikon? Are you sure Nikon is putting out much less power than Canon in HSS mode (explaining the faster recycling you mention)?

                I was testing Metz flashes (AF-58II):
                – they had very fast recycling times in HSS mode.
                – were almost identical to the Nikon SB-910 concerning light output, also in HSS mode
                – I don’t think Metz have completely different HSS-electronics for their Canon or Nikon versions?!
                – So I assume an equivalence of HSS: Nikon ~ Metz(Nikon version) ~ Metz(Canon version)
                – And I don’t see a reason why Metz(Canon version) shouldn’t be equivalent to a native Canon speedlite?

                “Theres no free lunch so that faster recycle has to be due to a reason.”

                3.) Not really. There’s a simple reason why recycle time can be so fast in HSS:

                a) Of course the power of one single micro burst when in HSS mode is very low. There’s simply an upper limit to the power of one of those micro bursts because it has be be extremly fast.
                b) Now when you have a very short shutter time (let’s say 1/8000s), the micro flashes in HSS mode are lighting for just a very short time (1/8000s).
                c) When you INTEGRATE the power of the micro flashes over such a short time, you simply get quite a low energy. [It’s just like a continuous light source integrated over a very short time => low integrated energy]
                And that’s the point: Low energy => Capacitor is only partially discharged, even at max output => fast recyling time.

                • Author
                  Flash Havoc 1 year ago

                  I haven’t really studied the speedlites, though from the trials I did earlier today the 600EX-RT recycle at full power was the same in or out of HSS.

                  That was the same for the AD360II, and AD600B as well. Which indicates to me the capacitor is getting completely emptied and recharged in HSS mode, just as it is at full power outside HSS mode.

                  I don’t have an SB-910 here to compare against, or a 430EX II to compare against my SB-700. Though I can do some tests to get a general idea if the Nikon flash is providing less light in HSS.

                  Though as I mentioned Rob Galbraith was saying Nikon speedlites provide far less light in HSS mode, and don’t fill (or use up the full) capacitor. And he knows what hes talking about.

                  I see now why Nikon owners are often complaining about the HSS burst rate of Godox flashes etc.

                  I think its related to power though, you can’t cheat physics.

                  • Adri 1 year ago

                    “I haven’t really studied the speedlites, though from the trials I did earlier today the 600EX-RT recycle at full power was the same in or out of HSS.”

                    Did you try different shutter times (including 1/8000s)?

                    —-

                    “Which indicates to me the capacitor is getting completely emptied and recharged in HSS mode”

                    IF this was the case: So you say the whole energy of the capacitor can be dumped within 1/8000s, right?
                    Let’s assume the efficiency factor of energy conversion (within capacitor -> light) is not too variable.
                    Then the conclusion is that the flash could be used as a super freezing 1/8000s flash at full power…. But flash duration at full power output is simply much longer for typical flashes.

                    So logically it can NOT be the case that at HSS and very short shutter speeds a full capacitor is fully discharged. (Except if efficiency is dropping dramatically, which I doubt.)

                    Sorry for my bad English 😉 Was my argumentation clear?

                    —-

                    “I see now why Nikon owners are often complaining about the HSS burst rate of Godox flashes etc.”

                    What exactly do they complain about? *confused* (Sorry if I didn’t read this forum thoroughly enough..)

                    —-

                    “you can’t cheat physics.”

                    Well, yes, but same phycis for Nikon and Canon I guess? 😉 So this doesn’t explain WHY Nikon and Canon should use so different HSS modes. Or put it differently: WHY would Nikon sacrifice such a lot of flash power in HSS mode (as you stated abov)?

                    • Author
                      Flash Havoc 1 year ago

                      I did use a few different shutter speeds, though I wasn’t really studying the difference in any detail. I need to take some time to look at this more carefully, because it is interesting how the 3rd party speedlites compare to the original Nikons.

                      The shutter speed shouldn’t matter that much though, as I explained to Ken in the last reply, you’re not trying to fit anything into a 1/8000s period. Regardless of the camera shutter speed, it still takes both camera shutters around the X-sync time of the camera (1/250th etc) for both shutters to pass across the camera sensor. So they need to make the flash pulse for around 1/200s – 1/250s even at 1/8000th shutter speed.

                      So no, the full capacitor is not being dumped in 1/8000s, its being dumped in around 1/250s, just like at any other shutter speed on the camera.

                      .

                      People often complain about the Nikon version third party flashes burst rate in HSS. So a number of times in the past I’ve been comparing them for people, though that’s generally at low power levels where they can to a number of frames per second. I didn’t realize at higher power levels, and even 1/1 the recycle is faster than outside HSS mode.

                      Now I realize though why its only Nikon owners that expect this fast recycle in HSS mode.

                      .

                      I can’t speak for Nikon, though the obvious reason would be that HSS puts a lot more stress on the flash tube, and likely other components in the flash.

                      People complain when I say that, though I don’t know what the more correct language is to describe it otherwise.

                      Canon had a lot of trouble with the 580EX II blowing flash tubes in HSS mode. Also the Godox V860C when first release would blow the flash tube the first time you turned HSS mode on. This was because they tried using a lower rated flash tube (which was meant to be equivalent to what YongNuo use in their speedlites).

                      Also you just have to look at the AD360 and AD360II etc. They are much more limited to the number of shots in HSS mode. As the power goes down, you can get more shots in row.

                      .

                      On another note if your interested in possibly reading about it. PocketWizard where caught up in those issues with the 580X II and HSS mode.Though PocketWizard eventually published a long report stating it was Canon’s fault and not theirs.

                      But the interesting point is that PocketWizard control TL radio triggers, when used with Canon speedlites, actually tune the HSS pulsing flash duration to a shorter period to more closely match the specific cameras shutter speeds. And so with some camera models this can mean almost half the energy being used, and therefore faster recycle times.

                      In other words Canon are being conservative, and pulsing the flash long enough to cover cameras with a slow shutter speed like the 6D and 5D etc. So its just wasting light on faster shutter cameras like the 1D.

                      Maybe Canon have update this in later flashes, though its likely they prefer to keep it more on the safe side in any case, so you don’t get any black frame showing.

                      So also flashes like the original AD360, and V850 etc, which have no communication with the camera, need to pulse the flash for a long enough period to cover the worst case scenario. So there’s definitely light being wasted with some cameras.

  15. BMac 1 year ago

    OK

    A few things to confirm from Jinbei.

    The HD610 pulses the flash to create the higher shutter speed sync. HSS
    Also I can confirm HSS is enabled in TTL mode as well. Only Freeze mode is not available in TTL
    I have found it not to slow down much in HSS mode for recycling although I will confirm this as well the pass through on the remote.

    From memory our Video was shot with a small soft box on 1/4 power to over power the sun, so I would say to still seems be quite powerful in HSS mode, something I have heard criticised on other units.

    The unit is very high quality, with lots of metal used in it’s construction. The Interface is simple and incredibly easy to use, as are the remotes. You can use this unit without referring to any instructions, which was their goal.

    Brian

    • Donald Carrie 1 year ago

      Tx Brian. OK pulsing type – I hope the output is reasonably constant (peak heights, I mean) throughout the curtains’ travel time.
      Stacking an Odin TCU, just for remote M setting of eg Mitros+ speedlites, is very optimistic, as Elv said, but it would suit my circumstances.
      Tx again!

      • Author
        Flash Havoc 1 year ago

        I’ve removed the Long Flash Duration mode from the post for the moment.

        I don’t have the strobe so I can only go on what others are saying for now. Though that still seems to indicate there is Long Duration Sync possible down to 1/32 power.

        If that mode is pulsing the flash as well, then I’m not sure what happens in TTL mode when you go bellow the 1/32 equivalent output limitation with high shutter speeds.

  16. Donald Carrie 1 year ago

    Also, do we have an accurate weight for the Strobe – battery attached? TIA

  17. BMac 1 year ago

    Donald 2.95 KG with battery attached
    2.35 without.

    Rgds Brian

    • Donald Carrie 1 year ago

      Tx! That pretty lightweight, like for like.

  18. Niels Gram 1 year ago

    This looks like a quite interesting strobe. On http://www.foto-morgen.de/Studioausstattung/Studioblitze-portabel/Jinbei-HD-610-HSS-Akku-Studioblitz-600-Ws-mit-TTL-Steuerung.html it is mentioned that the HD610 would “Super Sync mit separatem Funkauslöser (YN-622 oder Pixel King)”. So this is quite interesting. Will the HD610 work with YN622 and Pixex King (Pro) as well as the new Jinbei triggers ? As far as I can see Jinbei is missing the possibility of mixing the HD610 and normal speedlites but 622 or Pixel King compatibility would solve that.

    • Author
      Flash Havoc 1 year ago

      Niels, the TR-611 / 612 are clearly based on the King Pro platform. Though more often than not the frequency / encoding will be different so that they won’t work directly together.

      There appear to be a number of other strobes going to be working from the Pixel radio platforms, so ideally the best thing to do would be to actually keep them all compatible, as a larger combined system. Though that would likely be very difficult at this stage unless the manufacturers were all co-operating closely.

      As you know, people don’t really want to buy into new isolated radio systems anymore. Otherwise this strobe would likely be getting 10 times the attention that it has. (50 likes here vs 1800 on the Godox AD600).

      And considering the above, I doubt there is any direct compatibility with the YN-622. I’d think foto-morgen is just referring to triggering the strobes with an early fire signal, and using a YN-622 receiver etc attached to the strobe via sync cord as well.

      The term Super Sync may not be referring to long flash duration either, the strobe could still be pulsing all the time.

      Its difficult to get any accurate information from Jinbei. Though when the owners son is back from Europe we may able to get some answers.

  19. Adri 1 year ago

    By the way, again the usual question 😉

    “Groups – A / B / C / D / E / F”

    Are these TTL-groups?
    Also for Nikon?
    The sender seems to offer only tree groups? Or is there “scroll through menue system” for more than 3 groups?

    • Author
      Flash Havoc 1 year ago

      The strobe has 6 groups. I wrote 3 groups originally to be safe with regards to the transmitter, though naturally people then point out the strobe specs are 6 groups, so I changed it to 6.

      With regards to the transmitter though I can’t be sure until we actually see a finished unit. People who have samples already would have a good idea, but I don’t have one myself.

      The Mettle strobe transmitter is built on a similar platform though, and that is using a second page for the last 3 groups. I’m not sure what Jinbei have done yet though. I could hassle Jinbei, or even Flashpoint etc for an answer, though a lot of the time they may not be clear on the question and we get the wrong answer anyway (mainly at this early stage).

  20. Alex Jemeljanov 1 year ago

    Is there any info on freeze power on other power settings: 1/4, 1/8, 1/16?
    Could it give us similar effect of 1/5000 t1 on 1/8 and 1/10000 t1 on 1/16?
    That would give us around 80 Ws of freezing power to stop water.

  21. SmudgeStick 12 months ago

    Although quoted, including TTL trigger, at £800, allegedly, £650 or equivalent, is being accepted if anyone’s interested.

  22. Abimanyu 11 months ago

    How mount the mount? Is it Bowens?

  23. Benson 11 months ago

    Hi, I’m planning to buy a strobe, either AD600B or HD610. I used to use an Elinchrom Quadra with a skyport hs. But there were two things I don’t like. One is that it is not cordless, so it takes time to set up in location. And the other is its HSS shows gradation. So I’d rather go for a monoblock typed flash with multi pulse HSS.
    Can you recommend me any solution? AD600B has an ability to connect a remote head which is nice when it is optional. HD610 has brighter modelling light which I guess very useful in location and studio both. Cons are… what I don’t know. I’ve not used or tested both of them. I’m checking comments for useful information. There are a lot good ones but I haven’t found a fatal defects or cons yet. Can you help me with this? Thanks.

    • Author
      Flash Havoc 11 months ago

      Hi Benson,

      I don’t have the HD610 yet to compare to the AD600. I think they are only just starting to become available.

      Looking at previous HD600/II/V/RoveLihgts one of their main advantages was around 0.7 stop more power than the AD600. I don’t know yet if the HD610 are the same.

      Godox have a much larger compatible flash system and likely better radio system at this stage. We don’t know what the HD610 TTL is like yet either.

      • Benson 11 months ago

        Thanks. Is the ad600 TTL reliable? I heard some of godox flash TTL is not reliable. How is the ad600?

        • Author
          Flash Havoc 11 months ago

          I think from day one the TTL exposures from the AD600 have been solid and consistent. Its actually something that’s not talked about much though that’s one of the main reasons we had a fair amount of confidence in the flash from the early days.

          Most of the other Chinese TTL strobes I’ve used showed some signs of quirks. Usually they are reasonably early samples though so its not always fair to judge them completely at the start. Though its clear some still show similar quirks after being available for some time now.

          And the AD360II have been much the same as the AD600.

  24. Jorgen 10 months ago

    One great benefit of the Profoto B1 is that you can take a frame in TTL mode then immediately switch to manual and keep the same exposure level. Then you can shoot a constant exposure in manual. When your subject changes location you can “re-meter” back on TTL from the controller again. This takes most of the guess work out of finding the right exposure and not waste time chimping shots to find exposure. Does the HD 610 have this feature?

    • John 8 months ago

      Would flash exposure lock be an option?

  25. Gema 10 months ago

    Hi, I just bought the JINBEI HD 610 also with the Trigger (TR-611 for Canon) too.
    And I use Canon EOS 1DS Mark iii, I can firing the flash in off-camera with the test button in the trigger, but when I plug the trigger to the camera, and I press the shutter it can’t firing the flash. Can you tell me whats happened? and my camera use the latest firmware from the canon website. Thankyou!

    • Author
      Flash Havoc 10 months ago

      Hi Gema,

      Sorry I don’t know. The flash a transmitter are only new so there’s very little feedback available yet.

      Do you have access to any other cameras than the 1 series? That would be my first thought to try if possible.

    • Laci 5 months ago

      Gema!
      TR 611 >>>> RF mode 🙂

  26. Benson 9 months ago

    Would Jinbei upgrade HD610 firmware that it can work with canon RT system as the new Rovelight RT 610?

    • Author
      Flash Havoc 9 months ago

      Hi Benson,

      I’m not completely sure, though I would think that’s unlikely for current units unless the hardware is already prepared for that (which again I would think is unlikely).

      Speaking to other manufacturers previously they’ve said it requires hardware changes to incorporate the Canon RT system.

      Whether Jinbei will produce new HD610 with Canon RT I’m not sure either, though I’d say we would likely find out soon enough. I’m not sure if Adorama have an exclusive deal for this in the US or elsewhere.

  27. Laci 9 months ago

    What’s the new in the firmware HD 610 of the date 16.12.16.
    What kind of development has been done on it compared to the first version?
    THX!

  28. Nick 9 months ago

    I noticed when DPReview posted about the Orilt Rovelight RT 610 TTL (same strobe as Jinbei HD610) that they specifically state “Camera store Adorama has announced that it is to introduce a new line of monoblock studio heads that are designed to work directly with Canon’s RT radio TTL flash system. The company claims that the Orlit Rovelight RT 610 TTL Wireless Monolight, with its RT system built-in, is the first of its kind. The head can also be used with all Canon and Nikon DSLRs using the Orlit TR-611C and TR-612N TTL Transceivers that have been launched alongside the head. These transceivers allow TTL control of the head even with Nikon cameras.”

    So apparently Adorama’s version of the Jinbei HD610 will be able to work the Canon RT system.
    Here is a link to the article. https://www.dpreview.com/news/5851071804/adorama-to-introduce-canon-rt-radio-controlled-ttl-studio-head-and-hotshoe-flash

  29. Laci 8 months ago

    I upgraded to the HD 610 and TR-611c. It does not work for “ZGB” mode. The 600 ex-RT flash units are working, but not working hd 610 in “ZGB” mode. Only when I switched to the optical mode.
    Does anyone know why? So far it worked well.
    THX

    • reCon 5 months ago

      Laci,

      TR-611c. It does not work for “ZGB” mode.

      Q:Have you upgraded the firmware on the remote?
      How to tell:
      When you power on the remote, look at the bottom right corner
      of the screen.
      If it reads V.001
      your on the latest firmware.
      If no letters and just blank, need to update.
      May fix your problem…

      • Laci 5 months ago

        reCon!
        V001, V002, doesn’t work in zgb mode 🙁

  30. Negens 5 months ago

    Hello !
    Which trigger may I take for any another brand. (I don’t need HSS at all because I can have Leaf shutter lenses)

    Will the TR-A6 and TR-611 work with any camera brand ?

  31. Laci 5 months ago

    Hi Flashhavoc!
    How do I know, in the latest fw what is the change? https://www.foto-morgen.de/jinbei-firmware-update/
    Do you know maybe?
    THX 🙂

    • Author
      Flash Havoc 5 months ago

      Hi Laci,

      As far as I know that update was mainly for compatibility fixes with the 1DX. There was meant to be an update for the 5D IV coming.

      That’s using the TR-611 transmitter though. As far as I know the Canon ST-E3-RT works fine with the original firmware in the strobe.

      Hopefully Jinbei get more organised with their firmware updates and details, as this is all new to them as well. The next strobes will also have different hardware allowing updates with PC’s other than Windows 7, and also with Mac.

      Keep an eye on the Orlit RT 610 discussion thread as well, as the updates will likely be similar for both strobes.

      • Laci 5 months ago

        Flash Havoc!
        Thank you very much for the answer! 🙂
        It would be good if the Jinbei would publish it somewhere…. I hope….
        THX

  32. RC62 5 months ago

    I have the Good AD600 but find the modeling lamp quite dim, so I am checking out this unit as it has 20w LED modeling lamp and also does HSS and portable.

    Is there any detailed reviews of this product out there? I have not found any.

    How is color consistency in freeze mode for this product? The flash duration is listed as T.05 19000s, whats the T.01 for this unit, does anyone know?

    Also I use fuji cameras, and I know that the cactus stacked with the godox transmitters work for HSS, has anyone used the Cactus to pair with the HD610 transmitter with other brands camera other than canikon and make HSS work?

    Please advise, thanks!

    • Author
      Flash Havoc 5 months ago

      Hi RC62,

      I just checked the flash duration in freeze mode at minimum power and its around T.01 – 1/19500s, and T0.5 – 1/55000s.

      In regular mode color consistency is within around 300K across the power range. In freeze mode it goes from around 5500K all the way to around 9800K at minimum power (where the fastest flash duration is).

      The modelling light is much better than the AD600, though the manual version of this strobe will be the HD-601, and that only has a 10W modelling light unfortunately. (And power is reduced a little as well).

      So apart from the modelling light the AD600B / EXPLOR TTL would give you HSS and TTL for Fuji for similar money, once Godox get their Fuji system running.

      I’m not sure about stacking transmitters for HSS, as the current TR-611/612 transmitters don’t appear to fire just using the center fire pin (or other cameras than they are dedicated for). Though you should be able to use a Cactus V6II transmitter, and receiver attached to the flash via pc sync cord. I just tried this with some YN-622C as a test and HSS works ok like that.

      HSS only goes down to 1/32 power on the HD 610 as well. So unless you’re really after that modelling light the Godox system is likely to be a lot more streamline and functional with Fuji. Jinbei are just working on adding Sony at this stage, no plans for Fuji very soon.
      .

      Note also there is more discussion around the HD 610 in the Orlit RT 610 post here.

  33. RC62 5 months ago

    Thank you Flash Havoc for the insight, I’ll stick with the AD600 for now then, and wait for Jinbei/Orlit to work something out for the Fuji then. Thanks again.

  34. Mahdi Rafiey 5 months ago

    I wonder if this support the HSS and TTL for Fuji XT2. I am looking for an outdoor strobe that can be controlled wirelessly and provide the TTL and HSS functionalities for my XT2. Can you please help?

    • Laura 5 months ago

      Hi,Mahdi Rafiey
      Jinbei HD-610 now can support Canon and Nikon HSS/TTL, maybe someday Jinbei will work something out for the Fuji, just looking forward to it.

  35. Alfred 5 months ago

    How do I enable hss on the on the tr-612 for Nikon? Am using a Nikon D750. The only mode am getting is master.

    • Laura 5 months ago

      Hi, Alfred
      For Nikon camera, you have to set the shutter speed to 1/8000 on your camera, and make sure the CH/GR NO. of your flash and trigger is the same. Oh, do not forget to change the wireless receiver to “N” (there are C,N,A6,TRS four choices). Push master/slave switch button to choose master or slave mode
      Hope it can be be useful for you. If you are still confused you can come to Jinbei website and check with the usage guiding video.
      Share the link http://www.goldenshell.com.cn/en/product/detail.aspx?id=232

    • Author
      Flash Havoc 5 months ago

      Hi Alfred,

      There doesn’t appear to be any way to set the HSS mode directly on the TR-612 transmitter (unlike the TR-611).

      So as soon as you set the camera shutter speed over X-sync, the HSS flash icon should appear in the bottom right hand corner of the TR-612 display.

      You may need to set your flash sync speed to Auto FP first in the camera menu.

  36. lubos 5 months ago

    nejde me Canon 1D mark IV co stim

    • Author
      Flash Havoc 5 months ago

      Hi Lubos,

      If you are asking about Canon 1D mark IV compatibility, sorry I’m not sure about that.

      Though if using the genuine Canon transmitter like the ST-E3-RT there is a good chance it should work well.

  37. Hans 5 months ago

    Hi!
    I have got problems when I use the TR611 on my 5d mk III – the HD 610 will not correspond correctly with the TR611. When I turn on HSS on the HD 610 and do the same on the TR611 and then when I press the trigger on the camera it turns off the hss on the HD 610. I have got a problem when i go manual, then I can’t change the powersetting on the HD 610 – it always changes to 4.0.
    My version number on the TR611 is V002, but I havn’t updated the firmware in the HD 610, besaus I’ve not got a Windows XP or Windows 7. I,ve got a PC with Windows Vista – is it OK to use this PC to updating my HD 610?

    • Laura 5 months ago

      Hi, Hans
      Jinbei pulsing HSS mode allows shutter speeds to 1/8000 (down to 1/32 power) which means the flash power variation range should be 4.0-9.0 under HSS mode (adjustable in full or 0.1stop fine increments) So that is normal as you said “it always changes to 4.0”
      For firmware update, it may not support Windows 8, Windows10 and Mac computer operating system, as what I know , Windows Vista is the earlier version of Windows 7, so literally speaking it can support the firmware update, though I am not 100% sure about that. Sorry about that.

    • Author
      Flash Havoc 5 months ago

      Hi Hans,

      Did you try going into the camera menu to enable HSS mode on the camera?

      Your camera shutter speed needs to be over 1/200 as well, or the flash will automatically drop out of HSS mode when you take a shot.

      • Alfred 4 months ago

        Unfortunately the hd610 ttl and hss functions are not compatible with the nikon d750

  38. grant 3 months ago

    Hi there,

    Wondering if anyone may be able to help, I have the HD600v which I use with the TR-A6 on my Nikon D800 and I’ve just purchased the TR-612. Unfortunately I can’t seem to get the flash to fire though with the new unit.

    I was planning on trying to use my YN622N-TX on top of the TR-612 to control some off camera Nikon flashes with YN-622Ns.

    • Author
      Flash Havoc 3 months ago

      Hi grant,

      If you can make any sense of the legacy radio gear description I put in the post, it does say unfortunately that the HD 600V and older strobes are not compatible with the TR-611 / TR-612 and later radio gear.

      The current strobes provide legacy modes to operate with the older transmitters, though functionality is limited that way.

      I’m not really sure off the top of my head the best way to combine the TR-A6 and YN-622N-TX.

      • grant 3 months ago

        Thanks for that confirmation- I thought that may be the case but wasnt 100% sure.

  39. Graham 3 weeks ago

    I see the spec says it can do second curtain sync but, none of the controls indicate how this can be achieved; how is it done?

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